Terminology

[floit63]

This post got me thinking. How many of our arguments (either amongst ourselves or with others) stem from the fact that everyone has a slightly different interpretation of key words we use? I'm going to post a few different words that are rather important when discussing trans issues and I'd love it if everyone could go through and give their definitions of these words so that I can make a list for n00bs (all of them can be anon if you wish). My own definitions will be in the comments.

The Words:
Sex
Gender
Transgender
Transexual
Trans*
Male
Female
Man/boy
Woman/girl
Cisgender
Gay
Lesbian
Straight
Bisexual
Pansexual
Polysexual
Asexual
Ally
Stealth
Out (as in out of the closet, not as in out to the store)
Pride

Comments

[snakey]

so that a common middle ground can be achieved for a least some things

...so, wait. If I think someone's definition is transphobic, I should try and reach a 'middle ground'?

[floit63]

[grins] I figured

[snakey]

I will be interested to see how you modify your definitions as below.

[cyberspice]

I am stealthy. Basically i don't announce to the world that I'm trans (except possibly on here :-) but if anyone asks I don't deny it. I have friends who know and friends who don't. Most people in the street don't guess so I don't worry about it.

[floit63]

No, but it would be helpful to post your own definitions so that we can see some alternatives. Simply arguing without giving another option doesn't generally help anyone.

[floit63]

I'm similar. There are certain places I'd prefer not to be out and certain people who have no discretion, but for the most part if someone asks I have no objection to telling. Of course, that does require people asking and these days no one does so deciding which people need to be told can get kind of tricky.

[downtide]

I'd love to see how your definitions differ. Please post them?

[downtide]

thanks :)

[downtide]

People who are not really self-aware about gender also HAVE a gender.

This would be... who, exactly? Babies under a year old? The mentally disabled and unable to communicate? Of course they have a gender, we just don't know what it is.

[floit63]

I'm fairly certain maudlinstreet meant that even if people don't really think about their gender they still have one. Most cispeople, for example, never question their gender. They simply assume that penis = man and vagina = woman.

[ten]

Nothing in my comment said that. Or are you the discussion?

If you disagree, however strongly, with someone's definition, please go on and elaborate so that the discussion can actually be fruitful, and not just people being angry at each other.

[downtide]

well yes they do have a gender but it's not for me or maudlinstreet or anyone else to define that gender by looking at their physical appearance. Just because a person has a vagina doesn't make them a woman, necessarily.

[shemale]

Sex: An act between two or more participants involving pleasurable physical stimulation of the romantic variety

Gender: The classification of a word or grammatical form in a category or set, one category of such a set, or the distinguishing form or forms used in reference to one category of such a set.

Transgender: A general term applied to a variety of individuals, behaviors, and groups involving tendencies that diverge from the normative gender role (woman or man) commonly, but not always, assigned at birth, as well as the role traditionally held by society.

Transexual: Persona que adopta los caracteres sexuales del sexo opuesto-asignado mediante procesos hormonales y quirúrgicos.

Trans*: A reference to all or any of the words (and groups described by said words) beginning with the prefix trans- (and, additionally, the adjective "trans" as well).

Male: Someone who identifies their body as such

Female: Someone who identifies their body as such

Man/boy: Someone who identifies within that particular social category

Woman/girl: Someone who identifies within that particular social category

Cisgender: Not transgender

Gay: Same-gender loving, also a sexual identity

Lesbian: Same-gender loving woman

Straight: Opposite-gender loving

Bisexual: Both/any-gender loving

Pansexual: Lover of pans, flutes, and trannies. Often used by chasers.

Polysexual: Did you mean "polyamorous?"

Asexual: Single-organism reproduction. Also, a sexual identity indicating low or nonexistent libido.

Ally: Someone who's rather full of them-self to feel that they're entitled to base an identity indicating how great they are on the existence of marginalized groups from whose oppression they benefit.

Stealth: The quality or characteristic of being furtive or covert. See also: Assimilation

Out (as in out of the closet, not as in out to the store): Openly queer and/or trans

Pride: Fun event for the warmer seasons

[floit63]

I seem to be confused. Your definition of gender is something that is self-chosen, correct? maudlinstreet's argument appears to be that some people never make a conscious decision about their gender because they assume it's synonymous to their sex. However, they still have a gender (if pressed they tend to go with man/boy or woman/girl), they simply haven't made a choice about what it is.

Where does defining someone else's gender for them come into this?

Deleted the other comment because I was logged into the wrong account, sorry about that.

That took me a while, and I'm still not perfectly happy...

[ten]

My personal definitions of the terms (some easy, some difficult to put down in a few words) Note that where there are options, these options don't have to be exclusive of each other.

Sex The biological sex as defined by one's genetic makeup and natural reproductive organs.
Gender A role related to social interaction and environments. Can be set or fluent, depending on the person's self-identification and/or social environment. May be, but must not be related to the person's sex.
Transgender a) A state in which a person does not feel they belong to the gender assigned to them
b) a recently preferred term for transsexual as it is considered to encompass a far wider range of self-identification
Transexual A state in which a person considers their sex to not fit their gender
Trans* A common term for all forms of transitioning between genders and/or sexes
Male a) having the xy chromosome
b) a gender identity connected to certain characteristics most commonly defined by one's social environment
Female a) having the xx chromosome
b) a gender identity connected to certain characteristics most commonly defined by one's social environment
Man/boy a male person (see 'male' above)
Woman/girl a female person (see 'female' above)
Cisgender a state in which one feels their gender and natural sex are congruent
Gay being physically and/or romantically attracted to persons of the same sex and/or gender
Lesbian being of the female gender and/or sex and being physically and/or romantically attracted to other person of the female sex and/or gender
Straight being physically and/or romantically attracted to persons of the other gender and/or sex in a binary gender system
Bisexual being physically and/or romantically attracted to persons of either gender and/or sex in a binary gender system
Pansexual being physically and/or romantically attracted to persons of all genders and/or sexes in non-binary gender systems
Polysexual being physically and/or romantically attracted to persons of many but not necessarily all genders and/or sexes in non-binary gender systems
Asexual not being sexually attracted to others. Romantic attraction is however possible and sexuality still exists.
Ally Someone who supports the rights and situations of trans persons while not being trans themselves.
(I ... honestly dislike this term. It sounds too much like part of a war situation to me. I prefer a simple 'friend'.)
Stealth hiding one's trans* state from other people
Out informing other people about one's trans* state
Pride a movement that celebrates gender diversity and encourages people to never be ashamed nor let others treat them like they should be ashamed of their gender and/or sexuality.

[sqrrel]

Pansexual: Lover of pans, flutes, and trannies. Often used by chasers.

ILU.

[floit63]

Out of curiosity, what would you say about transpeople who identify as pansexual? I occasionally feel like every other transguy online is pansexual/polysexual and I'm not sure how comfortable I am considering them chasers.

And no, polysexual was not a mistake. I've spoken to people who actually have stated a preference so I thought I'd include it in the hopes that *someone* could give me a real reason as to why it's different from pansexual.

[downtide]

I seem to be confused.

So do I.

I thought I had everything clear in my head but now I'm not even sure I belong here if my definitions are so far off base from what everyone else is using.

[floit63]

Oh don't be scared off just yet. I was merely trying to clarify so that the discussion didn't turn into a giant flame war. This post is more to get a general idea of how everyone defines things so that we can avoid arguments in the future. So far you're not all that different from everyone else anyway.

Re: That took me a while, and I'm still not perfectly happy...

[floit63]

I rather like your definitions for male/female. Allows for biology without also getting into the issues I had with my own definitions.

And you gave me an actual definition of polysexual! I've been trying to figure out the difference between pansexual and polysexual since I first heard the term, thank you.

Re: That took me a while, and I'm still not perfectly happy...

[sin_nombre]

You do realize that there's no such thing as AN XY chromosome or AN XX chromosome, right? There's an X chromosome, and a Y chromosome, and they can be thrown into almost any configuration. Also, XY women (e.g., people with AIS) wouldn't fit into this definition, nor would XXY, XYY, XXYY men, or XO, XXX, or XXXX women, to name a few. And then there are the wonderful conditions that result in mosaicism.

Moreover, I'd venture to say that most trans* people have never had genetic testing and wouldn't know their own karyotypes anyway.

[shemale]

Oh, that's less of a problem; with the rare exception, trans people are usually pretty good about not exoticizing themselves and other trans people. Maybe a little pretentious, though.

I've never heard the term "polysexual" before in my life.

Re: That took me a while, and I'm still not perfectly happy...

[auntysarah]

There's no such thing as "the XX chromosome" and "the XY chromosome". There are X chromosomes, and there are Y chromosomes. It's also a lot more complicated than "46XX = female, 46XY = male", even if you ignore trans people. There are 46XX male people walking around who assume they are 46XY, there are 46XY female people walking around who assume they are 46XX. There are both 47XXY male and female people, again many of whom have no idea of their unusual chromosomal configuration, and various others.

XX=female, XY=male is very simplistic, and nature is much more complicated than that.

Re: That took me a while, and I'm still not perfectly happy...

[ten]

Someone else already commented that, but as their comment was screened I couldn't reply.

Yes, I had a word brainfart there. Chromosome combination would be what I really meant. Maybe adding a 'predominantly' would be more medically correct.

That person also mentioned AIS, which I, as far I'm very basically informed, is medically considered an intersex condition though.

Re: That took me a while, and I'm still not perfectly happy...

[floit63]

Just as a note, comments are screened unless you're a member of the community.