Terminology question

[purpletigron]

I hope this question is OK - please delete if not.

My question is about the usage of the terms 'sex' and 'gender'.

I find it useful to distinguish between sex - as biological genotype or phenotype - and gender - as social construct (and grammatical!) etc.

May I ask about how other readers define these terms?

Comments

[purpletigron]

In my terminology gender cannot be male/female etc. I would say that gender is masculine/feminine etc. I cross out GENDER on forms and write SEX if they want to know about my body shape.

But in your terminology, your sex identification is male, so that makes sense.

When you say, you could have lived rather happily as a woman in a male body, and that you're an effeminate man, are you talking about the same thing in both cases? Do you mean that you want to take on feminine social roles and behaviours, or that your body still shows female aspects to the casual observer, or something else?

Because I am neutral in gender and sex self-identification, people often read me as being 'deviant' from the binary classifications of sex, gender and sexuality.

[floit63]

I'm sort of talking about the same thing. I have absolutely NO idea what feminine social roles and behaviours are. I was raised in a world where men cooked, women played football, and everyone was considered equal. I've since moved, but I still get really confused when people act like women must do one thing and men must do another. It doesn't occur to me to act like anything other than myself. So my behaviour would be the same as it is now, but I suppose the perception would change.

[purpletigron]

I was raised in a family where the children were treated equally by my mother - encouraged to do what we wanted as long as we were safe and not hurting others, expected to share in all the housework equally, be home at the same time if we went out etc.

I started to notice that things were different outside my family when my mother re-married and we moved and I started a new primary school.

I act like myself - but I've been aware since that point that other people have perception issues about that ;-)

[floit63]

I think I would have noticed differences much sooner if my community as a whole hadn't been so egalitarian. As it is I didn't leave until I was nearly 21 and then I didn't move to an area where egalitarianism and a gender neutral upbringing ISN'T the norm until this past year (I'm 24 in September). So I still have problems recognising that not *everyone* was lucky enough to be allowed to be themselves from a very young age. Hell, I have problems noticing that I'm doing something socially unacceptable because to me a man knitting isn't a big deal.

[purpletigron]

I am delighted to know that such places exist, and that you had the pleasure to grow up in one, and then live in another.

I wouldn't describe 'a man knitting' as socially unacceptable, simply confusing to people with narrow ideas about sex and gender ;-)

[floit63]

I was very very lucky. My childhood community was almost utopian in how everyone worked together. It's since changed slightly, parents don't know each other, families with more conservative views have moved in...I don't think children growing up there now would have the same acceptance level I did.

[purpletigron]

Sigh.

[floit63]

Yeah. It's why I'm such an advocate for community involvement and diversity education in schools. With the exception of a handful of people whose families didn't approve of the rest of us anyway, everyone I grew up with is now accepting of just about anything. So long as everyone involved consents (and is capable of giving consent) we really don't care that much. I give the vast majority of the credit for that to the schools and youth organisations, they managed to teach a level of acceptance that not all parents approved of. (GLBT, gender equality, fine. Polyamory...well, there you had parents who disagreed).

[purpletigron]

Could you give me any insight into how your schools and youth groups managed to share their outlook of acceptance? I volunteer with the Woodcraft Folk, so I might be able to put into practice some of the ideas!

Funnily, when I came out as polyamorous, my mother's only concerns were (1) that my long-term partner with whom she was already familiar wasn't going to get hurt, and (2) that my two partners weren't going to go off together as a couple and leave me!

[floit63]

It was all very light handed. Starting in kindergarten we were taught that all people are different and that's ok. I shared a birthday with 4 of my neighbours (long story) and when we turned six all of us received a different Barbie doll. Asian, African-American, "standard" Barbie, Latina, and one in a wheel chair (that one had to be customised). Now, all four of the other kids were boys (and still are as far as I know) so that alone tells you what my childhood was like.

Bullying of ANY sort was not allowed. There was a "first punch" rule where you were allowed to defend yourself as long as the other person began the fight, but that was as close as we got. Every incidence was looked into, all physical bullying was reported to the police (who did not hesitate to give assault charges), and punishments were handed out liberally.

Teachers also encouraged debate. REAL debate, not the shouting matches you often get in school classrooms. If there was something the class disagreed on we would take a day to present sides. Anyone who wanted could present and then the other students were given time to ask questions. Sometimes we'd come to a compromise, other times we'd agree to disagree.

I don't know that any one thing lead to the environment, really it was more a combination of different beliefs about how children should be raised. We were treated like adults with valid opinions and then expected to behave accordingly. If we didn't we were punished and told why our behaviour was unacceptable. By 8th or 9th grade it had all seeped in to the point where acceptance of people and other views (even if we disagree) was the default.